UPDATE;- My Scottish Indepedence Poll was “hacked” shortly after the mommentus Scottish election results ,that gave Scotland a majority SNP government ,without the need of another political party as support. It was a LANDSLIDE!! All 3 heads of the unionist parties resigned after the election results
The next day exactly 100 votes ,all from a very narrow IP range, where added to the “Abolish the Scottish parliement ” vote option.
Can I thank the unionist vandal for showing us thier democratic values of unionism, and thier fair play and good sportsmanship…or in fact the complete lack of any of these qualities……..It also shows me ,we have you scared and making desperate actions, you have really made my day and given me strength to carry on in good spirits and renewed hope! Thank you
I take it you work at a call centre , from the IP addresses given! Time to get back to work now, or maybe you have found better employment at Macdonalds as you seem to be able to provide worthless crap in a short turn over time….
For those not up to speed on this issue, Scotland has been part of the UK since 1707. The union was FORCED on Scotland ,very much against the will of the people of Scotland. Riots and public unrest was the result.
“such a parcel o rogues in a nation,bought and sold for English gold” asRabbie Burns described the QUISLINGS that voted Scotland parliment out of existance.
Today Scotland has got its parliment back and it has a Scottish Nationalist Government (SNP) which stands for Scottish Independance.
Here are some of the arguements for Independance as found on
http://ourscotland.myfreeforum.org/ftopic541-0-asc-0.php
I have read the various opinions of Trolls and detracters on this forum and would like to reprint a leaflet I wrote for Siol-nan-gaidheal last year. I list the ten most common questions or objections raised by brainwashed unionists in Scotland:
Question 1:
Everyone tells us that Scotland is too poor to stand on its own feet and we will always require an English subsidy.
Fact Scotland has 8.6% of the UK population yet raises 10.41% of all UK tax revenues. (Source Treasury red Book 2002) Go figure it out for yourself. Exactly who is subsidising who?
Question 2.
Scotland could not survive without the Barnet formula handout from England.
The Barnett Formula is nothing more than a device which gives Scotland some of its own pocket money out of Scotlands pay packet which is taken by England. In 2002, Scotland contributed £42.7Billions to the UK Exchequer and received £18.1 Billions doled back in return via Barnet. It would be a much better idea to keep the £42.7 Billions as an Independent Country.
Question 3.
North sea oil is running out fast and soon there will be nothing left……
According to Professor Alex Kemp, of Petroleum Economics at the University of Aberdeen. North Sea Oil and Gas production will still be present in 2050. There is as much known oil left yet to be extracted than has already been exploited
Question 4.
Britain is becoming a net importer of oil and natural gas.
False. Scotland is a net exporter of Oil and Gas. Fact: An independent Scotland with 17.5% of Europes Oil reserves will be a net exporter of oil and gas for at least 25 years more years. Properly invested the proceeds will make Scotland the second richest nation on earth for its size. There will be huge social and economic benefits for all Scotlands Citizens and public services.
Question 5.
Scotland is too poor and small to afford to defend itself.
Why not? Switzerland uses just 1% of its GDP to provide a modern efficient Army and Air force. Norway spends 1.9% and can defend itself adequately. The UK spends 2.32% of GDP on its armed forces (Including Trident) Scotland can afford 1.6% of its GDP and still have modern professional armed forces half the size of the present UK.
Question 6.
We have a huge balance of payments problem, Scotland cannot possibly hope to pay her way.
False. The UK as a whole has Balance of Payments deficit of £35 Billions per annum. Scotland however actually contributes a Surplus of £2.3Billions.
Question 7.
Scotland could not compete against the mighty economic muscle of England.
Untrue. Denmark has an economic superpower to her south (Germany) and she does very well indeed. Switzerland is surrounded by three great economic superpowers, France, Italy, and Germany, yet she is the most prosperous nation in Europe. Singapore is a tiny island of 4 million people right next door to Indonesia with a population if 201 Millions yet is the powerhouse driving the SE Asian economy. Scotland has more than enough expertise to compete and prosper.
Question 8.
Scotland is too far away from the centre of Europe to prosper.
Iceland with a population of only 400,000, is situated far to the north by the arctic circle yet has the third highest standard of living in Europe.
Question 9.
The City ofLondon is too powerful a financial centre for Scotland to compete against. Scotland is one of Europe’s top ten financial centres, supporting employment for in the region of 200,000 people. Financial Services accounts for 8% of Scotland’s GDP and generates more than £20 bn annually for the economy. Scotland is reckoned to be the 12th leading global financial centre.
Question 10.
Scotland does not have the financial expertise to run its own affairs.
Who says so. Its strange that the late British Empire relied on a preponderence of Scots to run their affairs. Scots bankers, economists and Accountants (reckoned to be the best in their fields) are to be found at all levels of Government. Therefore the expertise is there.
http://ourscotland.myfreeforum.org/ftopic541-0-0-asc-.php
For me Scottish Independance is a non-brainer, Scotland should be independant,nevermind the economics. But I do think it is OBVIOUS that Scotland would be economically better off as well.
Those that say Scotland cannot survive as a country are bordering on RACISM in my book. WHY should Scotland not be able to do what many countries have been doing for hundreds of years and what European peoples are still demanding today in Slovenia , the Czech Republic , Slovakia , Bosnia , Serbia ,Latvia , Estonia etc etc etc….
SOAR ALBA
Cuthulan's Blog 
An Excellent article which plainly sets out the advantages of independence.
Hi Dark Lochnagar , thank you for your comment. Scotttish Independance is of great importance to me. These arguements must be won and the fearmongering from the Unionists must be shown for the nonsense it is.
If we actually THINK ,what would change in an independant Scotland apart from having control over our own resourses and financing? We would trade with English ,Irish (North and South) and Welsh just like we trade with any other European country today. We could decide if Scottish soldiers are in Iraq and how we look after them when they return.(I am anti-war but the way the British government treat injured returning service men and women is disgraceful!! They ain’t heroes but they are human beings )
The English can stop FALSELY calling Scots “subsidey junkies”, (Scotland plc makes money its Britain plc that looses money) and the Scots can stop blaming the English for Scotland’s problems.
We are an ancient and proud nation , and one of Europes indigenous peoples, its time for us to stand on our own 2 feet and be loud and proud ,but most importantly OURSELVES!!!!
[…] https://cuthulan.wordpress.com/2009/09/07/ten-good-reasons-for-scottish-independence/ […]
I BELIEVE SCOTLAND IS VERY CAPABLE OF BEING SELF SUFFICIENT IN FOOD PRODUCTION AND ENERGY.
11. It stops Scottish politicians meddling in English affairs.
@K.MACKINNON
Totally agree. We also stand on the brink of renewable energies such as wave and water current and wind turbines.IMHO Scotland brims with potential.
@English Conservatives
I agree
BUT considering the amount of English Conservative meddling in Scottish affairs i.e. the Thatcher years when there was NOT 1 conservative voted into power in Scotland ,but somehow you still ran the country?!?! Forgive me if its NOT one of my priorities 😉
But I think it would help the Scottish English relations with the two countries being independant. Independance has helped the Irish English relations in my opinion. I see very little changing after independance in business relations between Scotland and England ,we would just have control over our own resourses and foriegn policies and even a chance to re-evaluate EU membership and our own political parties and landscape. IMHO All positives .
@English Conservatives
Also ,it was Scottish meddling in English politics that made Great Britain , or made Britain Great! BUT that was in the days of Kings apointted by god and feudelism or “Ye Goode Olde Days” as you might call them.
It was King James VI of Scotland that took the English crown and made Great Britain,it was Scottish regiments that took a third of the world “WE where the thin red line!” it was Scottish administrators that kept a third of the world running ,it was Mr R. Paterson that setup the Bank of England and Adam Smith that invented capitalism, as England now survives solely on financial services (A really stupid idea btw) England would NOT be in the position of power it was then OR is sinking from now , without Scottish meddling!
I apologise now and I promise we will give you your country back and we will stop f*cking around with it.I apologise for both Blair and Brown ,(you can keep them btw ,we do NOT want them back,concider it payback for Thatcher! )I think by now you should be able to run a second rate European nation by yourself , if you need a hand or advice you know where you can find us. Just look North 😉
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Where are the benefits? All I see is reasons why Scotland could possibly stand alone but none of these reasons benefit Scotland in any way apart from pleasing the anti-english biggots who seem to hold a grudge on England for something that happened hundreds of years ago. I am Scottish but with one side of my family English. Living in Scotland for all my life has shown me how racist mothers and fathers have force fed their children lies about how awful the English are and how they are in inferior. England and Scotland both benefit from each other, why take away these benefits? Because the slimy worm Alex Salmond says so? I say don’t be so racist and open your eyes to how successful Britain has been and can be. I love Scotland more than any person of another nationality could imagine and want what’s best for it, tearing apart ally’s will help in no way whatsoever.
Hi Jack,thank you for the input.Benefits of Scottish independence are many.
Increased employment as bank rates etc will not be set for the South East ,which causes unemployment in Scotland and drives businesses south.
An end of the Scottish population exodus,a brain drain, this only stopped with Devolution.
It gives Scots the tools to deal with Scottish problems.
It means we will be a RICHER NATION.Unless YOU think the UK has preformed well?
Capitalism explained……
1.Availability of credit allows money to flow between savers and borrowers.
2.Resources and funds are allocated to various projects or investments during a boom phase.
3.Eventually borrowing becomes excessive and leads to malinvestment,
4.At this stage, adherence to free market theory would allow for an efficient cleansing period and a healthy recovery period. How? Irresponsible and unprofitable businesses fail. Bad debts get liquidated. Excess resources go on sale, flow into more stable ventures and pool together with more profitable resources controlled by healthy corporations or entities
http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article6497.html
This is called a boom and bust economy.
The UK has come out of a BOOM period up to its neck in debt.btw Norway and Switzerland are not in debt.
The UK debt is SO HUGE it swamps the Greek , Portugeese, Irish orSpainish debt.Who was going to pay this debt in the BUST period?
Even Iceland is in a better position than the UK.As Iceland has moved to a more direct democracy thanks to banker and polition corruption , it is NOT going to pay for corrupt bankers. YOU AND ME still are paying them ,we even give them bonuses in the UK!!!
AS for being anti-English ,this is just BRITISH NATIONALISTIC RUBBISH. The English vs Scottish nonsense is a divide and rule tactic, like protestant and catholic,to keep our minds off the fact that the product itself ,the UK government or christianity ,is corrupt and incompitant.This tactic is as OLD AS EMPIRE. The average English person is getting screwed by the British establishment as well. Its unionist that go on about anti-englishness and then talk about Scotlands inability to run itself!? This sounds like anti-Scottish racism to me, and it is very prelevant in the unionist movement!!!
For more info please read
The business effect
My preferred solution
Possibly related posts
Hope this has cleared up a few things
I completely agree with you Jack, I am in the same boat as you, the only push for independence at the moment is by the racist, uneducated, with a small portion being half educated by internet propaganda, reusing the same recycled arguments about our oil. I honestly think both England and Scotland need each other, for a variety of reasons. cuthulan, norway and swizerland have been independent for about a hundred years, and in that time they haven’t developed a proper army, hence no costs for there defence, hence no debt. Although I enjoy this idea, try telling that to our thousands of servicemen and women who would be unemployed because we can’t pay the bill. The divide and rule tactic may be ‘old as empire’ but so is spite. And the more I read your comments and articles I do think you are driven by it. You have to weigh up both sides. I have and most people who have know that it does not make finacial sense, espicially in the current economic climate, nor logical reasons that are great enough to justify independence.
@Innocent Bystander
I am supportting Scottish Independence , so that is the side i put forward. There is already too much unionist bias in the MSM ,please ask them to print BOTH sides of the arguement,then I would not have to push the Independence side !!
YOU SAY
“the costs of going independent, rejoining the EU and being forced into the euro, the big business evacuation, borders control, being unnoticed in the world: these have their implications, big financial impications!”
THIS IS NONSENSE .
BUT I am used to hearing this repeated by the unionists.
The cost of going independant would be LESS than remaining in the union and being bled dry!!
IN THE UNION WE SUFFER a 25%-30%(at least) LOSS of living standards ,or a 30% Union Jack Tax.
Using the UK’s own assumptions for tax revenue and spending, but including Scotland’s share of North Sea Oil receipts, this answer revealed that between 1978-79 and 1994-95 Scotland had a cumulative surplus of £27.6 billion, or £34 billion in today’s prices. At the same time the UK had a deficit of more than £330bn.
YOU SAY Border controls?!?!?!!? What are you talking about?!?!? Why would we need more or less than we have now?Just more scare mongering!
I do NOT want to be in the EU!! I support a Swiss or Norwegian model. either way less EU interference. Less EU cost!Why get rid of London dictatorship ,just to hand it to Brussels? Just More unionist hyprcracy and scare mongering
Being unoticed in the world?!!? Yet again you are putting down the Scots and showing your own megalomania or hypocracy. Scots have had a huge influence on the modern world ,as an independant country that would only increase. Today we have NO VOICE , Westminster and London speak for us.If you want more influence in the world ,bisband the UK government and join an EU government, it would be the biggest influence in todays markets!! But giving up a UK soverignty is not worth it according to unionists…so why is giving up Scottish soverignty for “theoretical economic benefit” any different? Just more unionist hyprcracy.
There is some merit in what you say about having an English parliment, but if we do this what costs are being involved? Surely more than independence. Independence would be exactly the same except we would NOT BE PAYING FOR A UK GOVERNMENT!!
YOU GO ON TO SAY
“I completely agree with you Jack, I am in the same boat as you, the only push for independence at the moment is by the racist, uneducated, with a small portion being half educated by internet propaganda, reusing the same recycled arguments about our oil.”
I have answered Jacks statements. It is the unionist that is the “institutionalised rascist”. But there are rascists in the independence camp as well, BUT a hell of a lot more in the unionist!!!
It is NOT PROPAGANDA that the Labour government hid the facts about north sea oil. It is not propaganda that the Adam Smith Institute thinks Scotland would boom in independence. It is not propaganda that after a BOOM PERIOD the UK was TOTALLY IN DEBT!! Norway and switzerland are NOT!!
THE UK’S FINANCIAL POSITION ,JUST BEFORE THE CREDIT CRUNCH 2007. THIS WAS THE END OF A FINACIAL BOOM PERIOD!! BTW 181ST IS LAST PLACE
Rank Country CAB USD, bn
1 People’s Republic of China 371.833
2 Germany 252.501
3 Japan 210.967
4 Saudi Arabia 95.762
5 Russia 76.163
6 Switzerland 70.797
7 Norway 59.983
8 Netherlands 52.522
176 Greece -44.218
177 Italy -52.725
178 Australia -56.342
179 United Kingdom -105.224
180 Spain -145.141
181 United States -731.214
UNIONISTS STUCK IN THE MEDIA RUT(REPEAT UNTIL TRUE)THAT THE UK BENEFITS SCOTLAND
NO IT DOES NOT ,HERE ARE SOME FACTS RATHER THAN MSM UNIONIST SOUNDBYTES
“Adam Smith Institute, Friday, April 27, 2007
The Scottish economy could enjoy record growth if Scotland became independent, leaving the average Scot many thousands of pounds better off each year. This is the finding of a research Briefing Paper published today by the Adam Smith Institute, the free market economic think tank.”
Chinese rating agency strips Western nations of AAA status
China’s leading credit rating agency has stripped America, Britain, Germany and France of their AAA ratings, accusing Anglo-Saxon competitors of ideological bias in favour of the West.
The US falls to AA, while Britain and France slither down to AA-. Belgium, Spain, Italy are ranked at A- along with Malaysia.
Dagong rates Norway, Denmark, Switzerland, and Singapore at AAA, along with the commodity twins Australia and New Zealand.
WHAT ARE THE FINANCIAL BENEFITS OF BEING IN THE UK FOR SCOTLAND?
“and most people who have know that it does not make finacial sense, espicially in the current economic climate, nor logical reasons that are great enough to justify independence.”
OH REALLY! I WORK IN THE FINANCIAL INDUSTRY AND ALL THE BA’S(BUSINESS ANALYSTS) I KNOW THINK SCOTLAND WOULD BE BETTER OFF INDEPENDENT. WHO ARE YOU ASKING?
FYI IT WAS ME IN THE SCOTMANS ARGUING THAT THE UK ECONOMY WAS STARING INTO THE ABYSS ,WHEN UNIONIST WHERE STILL PRAISING THE STRENGTH OF THE BRITISH ECONOMY.i WOULD NOT BE LISTENING TO UNIONIST ECONOMISTS ,THEY HAVE A VERY BAD TRACK RECORD!!
AS FOR INDEPENDENCE LOOSING SCOTLAND BUSINESS , YET AGAIN YOU ARE COMPLETELY WRONG!!!ITS UNIONISM THAT LOOSES SCOTLAND BUSINESS!
Unionism has given Scotland
a loss of business investment ,as bank rates are set according to the souths’ needs so encouraging business to move south.
Increased unemployment due to unfavourable business environment and the migration of businesses to the south
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/talking_point/198830.stm
caused a population exodus,note there where less people in Scotland in 2006 than in 1961 and note the amount of ex-pat posters
5,116,900 (2006 est)
5,094,800 (2005 est)
5,078,400 (2004 est)
5,057,400 (2003 est)
5,054,800 (2002 est)
5,062,011 (2001 est)
5,083,000 (1991 est)
5,180,200 (1981 est)
5,234,000 (1971 est)
5,201,000 (1961 est)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_of_Scotland
Would the LAST Scot to leave the Union please switch the lights out….
1961 – 43,983,300
1971 – 45,870,100
1981 – 46,623,500
1991 – 48,067,300
2001 – 49,138,831 [4]
2005 – 50,431,700 [5]
2006 – 50,762,900
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_of_England
caused a Scottish “Brain drain”,note the amount of well educated ex-pat posters paying thier taxes to foreign countries
But thank you for your time and effort in commenting .Hope this clears up a few issues.
Someother posts you might find interesting
“norway and swizerland have been independent for about a hundred years, and in that time they haven’t developed a proper army, hence no costs for there defence, hence no debt.”
Your knowledge of history is not up to much either.Switzerland has constantly existed, its the confereration Helveti(CH),its been there since before the Romans arrived. Switzerland was invovled in the 1814 war .It was 1840 that Switzerland became a direct democracy, since then it has not been at war and has disbanded it army,without mass unemployment. We spend how much on the death industry(defence) and it has reduced terrorism and made us less likely to be involved in WWIII?!?!NO!!!How much do we spend on anti-terrorist and preparing to fight WWIII? Today switzerland has a militia army, there is not an army in the world that could take out Switzerland, including the British army!!…and the swiss spend virtually nothing on thier militia army compared to countries with standing armies aka invasion forces and are not being subjected to terrorism or threatened with WWIII!! Norway is going the same way.
…..so you say if we stopped the illegal wars we would be out of debt? BUT we cannot do this because of unemployed soldiers….Not a very professional or sensible statement!
“Although I enjoy this idea, try telling that to our thousands of servicemen and women who would be unemployed because we can’t pay the bill.”
The BILL of keeping them as trained killers in someone elses country is a hell of a lot more and we have only just begun to pay for this. WE will have psychotic trained killers walking our streets ready to go off at any momment as they struggle to return to normal life.
YOU think it makes economic sense to drop a million quids worth of ordenance on 20 quids worth of real estate?
FYI there are more VETS IN UK PRISONS TODAY THAN ARE SERVING IN AFGHANISTAN RIGHT NOW!!!
HOW MUCH DOES THIS COST?!?!?! btw these people are not in prison for parking tickets ,thier monsterous crimes are just NOT REPORTED as this may effect the war effort!!! But that unionist economics and propaganda for you!!
Scottish Independence , direct democracy and disband the armed invasion forces and make a militia army and we would be economically booming , politically less corrupt and a hell of alot more safe and wealthy!!
Anyone that really knows what they are talking about knows this!! You just sound like you are repeating the same old unionist soundbytes that have been proven as lies and nonsense long ago!
Please join 21st century Europe , its full of “NEW” “ANCIENT” European nations, like Estonia , Lithuania, Czech Republic, Slovakia , Slovania , Croatia , Ukraine , etc etc … and NONE OF THEM THINK INDEPENDENCE WAS A MISTAKE!!!!!
Fighting for drugs and oil
What our invasion forces have been up to. 70 countries invaded ZERO democracies created!! In fact we overthrown a lot of democratic governments
There is no spite against nations in my posts , just against oppressors that would steal our resourses and sell our children as debt slaves and ignore our voices. BUT There is a typical condecending attituted in your posts. Nationalists are all ignorant rascists and only unionists understand economics seems to be your message….it come across as institionalised rascism.
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This would be a better article if there was no bias, and both positives and negatives were laid out. Although I agree on several of these points, the costs of going independent, rejoining the EU and being forced into the euro, the big business evacuation, borders control, being unnoticed in the world: these have their implications, big financial impications! The REAL solution, to keep the braveheart-heads, the english ‘peacemakers’, and the ones who genuinely think there are some definite issues with the current system and independence, is for there to be a SEPERATE english government. This would mean that westminster would be for the UK, not the UK and england at the same time.
@Innocent bystander
I seemed to have answered this post in my previous post.
Your seperate english government or federal solution, would just involved a hell of a lot more administartion costs. NOT the best solution in these times, independence would be the same BUT MUCH CHEAPER!
LMHO after independence being “British” would not disappear.People could still refer to themselves as British in the same way Norwegian , Swedes , Finns and Danish call themselves “Scandic”.
We might even end up with a “British and Irish Lions” football team for testamonials etc like we do for rugby.
Anglo-Irish relations are much better post independence, and not many South Irish think it was a mistake, even with the present finacial situation,its the lying politions that is the problem NOT INDEPENDENCE! Its the same in Scotland today!
England’s society and life there is pretty much down hill and I know the Scottish can think of themselves, they are a proud people and I know they can manage their lives much better than the UK government and for those reasons, I proudly support Scottish independence
The self-righteous self serving imperialist British Government and it’s henchmen are using wartime style propaganda tactics,
military and economic coersion as well as every conceivable underhanded ploy and deception in a power play to derail a YES vote in the referendum for an independent Scotland — ‘at all cost’.
Scotland was never given a referendum to ‘join’ the United Kingdom 306 years ago, Act of the Union was ‘proclaimed’ in secret
without the consent of the people of Scotland.
Now, three centuries later, Britain’s powerbrokers will resort to any level of moral depravity and criminality to see to it that Scotland remains under the thumb of the English monarchy.
The People of Scotland were conquered and suppressed by the English monarchy, which now fears the impending humiliation and degradation of ‘poor little England’ resulting from a free and independent ‘Republic of Scotland’ as a rightful sovereign nation.
Wake up Scotland!
2014 is your ‘Last Chance’ to restore Scotland’s dignity as a nation.
Don’t allow the British Bully State blackmail you into submission.
‘Think For Yourselves’ and Think of the Children of Scotland who will inherit the result of your vote.
Some example links below :
http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/scottish-independence-fresh-warning-over-clyde-warship-contracts-if-scotland-goes-it-alone-1-2700266
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2084464/Scotland-referendum-Like-need-need-us.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/9270749/Britain-forced-to-leave-EU-if-Scotland-separates.html
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Reblogged this on Cuthulan's Blog and commented:
For the Scottish Independence Vote.
VOTE YES ,VOTE POSITIVE ,VOTE FOR CHANGE