Are US wars in Iraq and Afghanistan well-intended mistakes? What we now know from the evidence

Some Americans justify the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan as well-intended interventions for the good of their people, and the security of our nation and the world. They believe that the President MUST have had evidence of national security risk before taking the last and dire step of invasion.

This is a crucial point. If there was credible evidence of imminent threat to US national security, then the wars were justified under the UN Charter for self-defense. However, if the evidence was not credible, or fabricated, then these wars are illegal Wars of Aggression. So which is it?

Americans and the world no longer need BELIEVE anything; the specific evidence used to justify invading two countries is now public knowledge. All we have to do is match the government’s claims to the exact evidence and you can decide for yourself. This article lays it out.

First, as you may recall, there were four basic claims of fact presented by political “leadership” to invade Iraq:

1. Iraq had Weapons of Mass Destruction (WMD), a scary-sounding name for specific chemical and biological weapons.

2. The US intercepted aluminum tubes that could only be used to refine nuclear material; irrefutable evidence that Iraq had restarted a nuclear weapons program.

3. Saddam had attempted to purchase enriched uranium from Niger; more evidence that Iraq had reconstituted nuclear weapons development.

4. Saddam had links to Al Qaeda, the alleged terrorists who attacked the US on 9/11.

Here’s what we know about the evidence from which those claims were made. This is the summary; for my complete briefing, read here, here, and browse here.

1. George Tenet, Director of the CIA, acknowledged that all US intelligence agency reports “never said there was an imminent threat.”  This was based on a long history of intelligence reports, the facts that the chemical and biological weapons under consideration were relatively weak without a delivery system, and that Iraq was highly motivated NOT to use them against the US given their understanding such use would provoke war with the world’s most powerful military.


It was the “west” and Reagan and Rumsfeld that provided the WMD’s and nerve gas to the Iraq’s in the first place.
   So “Our Man” Saddam could continue the war against the Islamic Republic of Iran. The Islamic revolution being the result of US/UK foreign policy ,see Operation Ajax

As a side issue , the sanctions against Iran are just Operation Ajax II.For more on this please read.

2. The Bush administration claim of aluminum tubes that could only be used as centrifuges to refine fissionable material for nuclear weapons is directly refuted by the best expert witnesses available, the US Department of Energy (DOE) and the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA). Their conclusion is that the tubes in question had diameters too small, the tubes were too thick, using aluminum as the material would be “a huge step backwards,” and the surface was anodized that made them impossible to serve this purpose. They also found that the tubes were easily explained for use of conventional, as the specifications perfectly matched tubing for that purpose. The Senate Committee on Intelligence agreed that this claim had no basis from any available evidence. See also here.

 3. This claim, repeated by President Bush in the 2003 State of the Union Address, was based on the “Niger documents.” These papers were written in grammatically poor French, had a “childlike” forgery of the Niger President’s signature, and had a document signed by a foreign minister who had been out of office for 14 years prior to the date on the document. The forgeries showed-up shortly after the Niger embassy in Rome was robbed, with the only missing items being stationery and Niger government stamps. The same stationery and stamps were used for the forged documents. The CIA warned President Bush on at least three occasions to not make the claim due to the ridiculous evidence. In addition, if Saddam really was making an illegal uranium purchase, it’s likely that both Saddam and the Niger government officials would insist on not having a written record that would document the crime. Republican US Ambassador to Niger, Joseph Wilson, confirmed this information and reported in detail to Vice President Cheney’s office and the CIA.


After being CAUGHT LYING! The Bush Administration show thier leasdership and maturity, by NAMING a SERVING CIA operative TRACKING WMD’S!!!!  Thus reducing national sercurity and endangering the lives of many operatives in the field.

Plame Affair (also known as the CIA leak scandal, the CIA leak case, the CIA leak grand jury investigation, and Plamegate) refers to the identification of Valerie Plame Wilson as a covert[1][2] Central Intelligence Agency officer.[3] Mrs. Wilson’s relationship with the CIA was classified information.[1] The disclosure was made in a newspaper column entitled “Mission to Niger” written by Robert Novak, and published on July 14, 2003.[4]

Mrs. Wilson’s husband, former Ambassador Joseph C. Wilson, has stated his opinion in various interviews and subsequent writings (as listed in his 2004 memoir The Politics of Truth) that members of former President George W. Bush’s administration revealed Mrs. Wilson’s covert status as retribution for his op-ed entitled “What I Didn’t Find in Africa,” published in The New York Times on July 6, 2003

4. As to the claim of a relationship between Saddam Hussein and Al Qaeda, all US intelligence agencies reported that no such relationship existed (and here).

As for Afghanistan, after the attacks of 9/11, the US government requested the cooperation of the Afghanistan government for extradition of Osama bid Laden to be charged with the 9/11 attacks. The Afghan government agreed, as per usual cooperative international law, as soon as the US government provided evidence of bin Laden’s involvement.The US government refused to provide any evidence. The Afghan government refused US troops entering their country and extradition until evidence was provided, and made their argument to the world press for the rule of law to apply to the US extradition request. The US invaded Afghanistan without providing evidence and without UN Security Council approval. President Bush stated, “There’s no need to discuss evidence of innocence or guilt. We know he’s guilty.”

EXTRA- There is MORE EVIDENCE of a relationship between BUSH and BIN LADEN!

 Osama DENIES 911 , but the FBI release 2 FAKE videos and suppresses the REAL video!

The following is an extract from bin Laden’s September 28, 2001 denial of involvement in the 9/11 attacks…
“This system is totally in control of the American-Jews, whose first priority is Israel, not the United States. It is clear that the American people are themselves the slaves of the Jews and are forced to live according to the principles and laws laid by them. So, the punishment should reach Israel. In fact, it is Israel, which is giving a blood bath to innocent Muslims and the U.S. is not uttering a single word.” [Public Action]
When asked why there is no mention of 9/11 on Bin Laden’s Most Wanted web page, [Rex Tomb, Chief of Investigative Publicity for the FBI] said, “The reason why 9/11 is not mentioned on Usama Bin Laden’s Most Wanted page is because the FBI has no hard evidence connecting Bin Laden to 9/11.” [Muckraker Report]
The above demonstrates the bin Laden “confession video” was a propaganda exercise created to justify the pursuit of a preplanned war. 

The Fake 2001 bin Laden
Video Tape
“For those who see this tape, they’ll realise that not only is he guilty of incredible murder, he has no conscience and no soul, that he represents the worst of civilisation,” said President George W Bush. US Senator Ron Wyden, who has also seen the tape, says he hopes it will remove suspicions in countries such as Pakistan that the 11 September attacks were an Israeli plot aimed at drawing the US into a war with Islamic countries. [BBC News]
“It is preposterous for anybody to think that this tape is doctored,” he said during a brief photo opportunity with the prime minister of Thailand. “That’s just a feeble excuse to provide weak support for an incredibly evil man.” [CNN]
The video was very effective in diverting media attention away from the deportation of five Israelis who danced as the twin towers burned – “Osama” certainly picks his moments to appear.
A German TV show found that the White House’s translation of the video was inaccurate and “manipulative”. Bin Laden even praised two live ‘hijackers’ – Wail M. Alshehri and Salem Alhazmi. Why didn’t he know the names of hijackers he personally chose?

This was not the first video claiming to show Osama confessing to the 9/11 attacks…

[Video] footage, to which the Telegraph obtained access in the Middle East yesterday, was not made for public release via the al-Jazeera television network used by bin Laden for propaganda purposes in the past. … The video will form the centrepiece of Britain and America’s new evidence against bin Laden, to be released this Wednesday. [Telegraph 11/11/01]

BOTH VIDOES ARE NOW KNOWN TO BE FAKE!!! For some reason no-one is looking for the person responsible?

My analysis: as you may know, Nazi Germany invaded Poland in 1939 under the lie of self-defense, staging a false-flag attack. A false-flag attack is when you attack yourself disguised as an enemy you want to create public opinion to attack. This was called Operation Himmler. The only difference between now and then is that the US false-threat invasion has not yet resulted in another world war.

EXTRA- Operation Himmler 1933 and the The Business Plot 1933 (also the Plot Against FDR and the White House Putsch) was an alleged political conspiracy in 1933 wherein wealthy businessmen and corporations plotted a coup d’état to overthrow United States President Franklin D. Roosevelt

It was the Bush family and Wall Street that was involved with the attempted Facsist take over of America in 1933. Coincidently at the same time as the 1933 take over of Germany ,the burning of the Reichstag and the following Enabling Act (the German 911 and Patriot Act).
The Reichstag fire was an arson attack on the Reichstag building in Berlin on 27 February 1933. The event is seen as pivotal in the establishment of Nazi Germany.
“As the evidence piled up, there was little doubt that the Nazis themselves had set the fire…
The burning of the Reichstag six days before the election, depicted by the Nazis as the beginning of a communist revolution, resulted in the Reichstag Fire Decree, which (among other things) suspended civil liberties and habeas corpus rights.
Any of this sound familiar?
20 years of unregulated Fractional Reserve banking practices ,.. basically creating money out of thin air by creating debt, which they call money, and charging for services and interest. Artificially raising prices as more people can bid for the items.(A repeat of this has happened since ’80’s Reagonomics AND Thatcherism de-regulated the financial system ,20years later we are all bankrupt!Coincidence , Incompitence or conspiracy? )
Basically deregulating the financial services which led too`the Federal Reserve System’s expansionary monetary policy in the 1920s, arguing that the policy allowed misallocations of capital resources and supported a massive stock price bubble`
20 years later in 1933 the stock market had crashed ,the Great Depression was in full swing and America was BANKRUPT!
The Business Plot (also the Plot Against FDR and the White House Putsch) was an alleged political conspiracy in 1933 wherein wealthy businessmen and corporations plotted a coup d’état to overthrow United States President Franklin D. Roosevelt. Backed by Wall Street financiers including J.P. Morgan & Co., the Du Pont interests, Remington Arms ,”A BBC documentary claims Prescott Bush, father and grandfather to the 41st and 43rd US Presidents respectively, was also connected.”
“Many traditionalists, here and in Europe, toyed with the ideas of Fascism and National Socialism; many liberals dallied with Socialism and Communism.” Cramer argues that this explains why some American business leaders viewed fascism as a viable system to both preserve their interests and end the economic woes of the Depression
The Congressional committee report confirmed Butler’s testimony (emphasis added):
In the last few weeks of the committee’s official life it received evidence showing that certain persons had made an attempt to establish a fascist government in this country…There is no question that these attempts were discussed, were planned, and might have been placed in execution when and if the financial backers deemed it expedient.
Why do we know SO LITTLE about this???
In 1934, newspapers were controlled by an élite — according to then-Interior Secretary Harold L. Ickes, 82 per cent of daily newspapers monopolised their communities; the media down-played Gen. Butler’s testimony to protect the interests of advertisers and their owners.
When you consider Prescott Bush
In 1924, Bush became vice-president of A. Harriman & Co. His father-in-law, George Herbert Walker also worked with the company, as did E. Roland Harriman and Knight Woolley, Bush’s Yale classmates and fellow Bonesmen
IN 1940’s
Bush,as well as Harriman, was a member of the Board of Directors of Union Banking Corp, whose assets were seized under the Trading with the Enemy Act due to ownership by “enemy nationals”.i.e. NAZI’s

The Credit Crunch is a rerun of the 1933 Fascist Coup of USA and Germany

Banking on Hitler

Throughout the 1930s, with the loans provided through the Dawes and Young Plans, Germany was able to create a few dominant industrial cartels, which were all financed by Wall Street bankers and industrialists.[52] These cartels provided the basis for and main financial backing of the Nazi regime. Collaboration between the German Nazi industry and American industry and finance continued, specifically with Morgan and Rockefeller interests, as well as Ford and DuPont. The Morgan-Rockefeller international banks and companies associated with them “were intimately related to the growth of Nazi industry.”[53] Rockefeller’s Standard Oil Empire “was of critical assistance in helping Nazi Germany prepare for World War II.”[54] On top of this, the Rockefeller Foundation was also pivotal in not only funding the racist and elitist eugenics movement in the United States, but played a pivotal part in bringing the eugenics ideology to Nazi Germany, facilitating the beliefs that brought about the Holocaust.[55]

Below is the best artistic video I’ve found describing the above documentation. Warning: brief adult language.

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As far as I see things , 911 was America’s Reichstag fire and the Patriot Act America’s Enabling Act. Afghanistan and Iraq wars are America’s Czech Sudatenland and Poland. False flag operations by governments are as old as Nero ,if not older. Check out  the Lavon Affair ,

The Lavon Affair refers to the scandal over a failed Israeli covert operation in Egypt known as Operation Susannah, in which Israeli military intelligence planted bombs in Egyptian, American and British-owned targets in Egypt in the summer of 1954 in the hopes that “the Muslim Brotherhood, the Communists, ‘unspecified malcontents’ or ‘local nationalists'” would be blamed

USS Liberty ,

The USS Liberty incident was an attack on a neutral United States Navy technical research ship, USS Liberty, by Israeli jet fighter planes and motor torpedo boats on June 8, 1967, during the Six-Day War. The combined air and sea attack killed 34 crew members (naval officers, seamen, two Marines, and a civilian), wounded 171 crew members, and damaged the ship severely. The ship was in international waters north of the Sinai Peninsula, about 25.5 nautical miles (47.2 km) northwest from the Egyptian city of Arish

In the 1931 Mukden incident, Japanese officers fabricated a pretext for annexing Manchuria by blowing up a section of railway. Six years later they falsely claimed the kidnapping of one of their soldiers in the Marco Polo Bridge Incident as an excuse to invade China proper.

In the Gleiwitz incident in August 1939, Reinhard Heydrich made use of fabricated evidence of a Polish attack against Germany to mobilize German public opinion and to fabricate a false justification for a war with Poland. This, along with other false flag operations in Operation Himmler, would be used to mobilize support from the German population for the start of World War II in Europe.

On November 26, 1939 the Soviet Union shelled the Russian village of Mainila near the Finnish border. The Soviet Union attacked Finland four days after the Shelling of Mainila. Russia has agreed that the attack was initiated by the Soviets.[4] Also, the nearest Finnish artillery pieces were well out of range of Mainila.[5]

In 1953, the U.S. and British-orchestrated Operation Ajax used “false-flag” and propaganda operations against the formerly democratically elected leader of Iran, Mohammed Mosaddeq. Information regarding the CIA-sponsored coup d’etat has been largely declassified and is available in the CIA archives.[6]

In 1954, Israel sponsored bombings against US and UK interests in Cairo aiming to cause trouble between Egypt and the West.[7] This operation, later dubbed the Lavon Affair, cost Israeli defense minister Pinhas Lavon his job. The state of Israel (where it is known as “The Unfortunate Affair”) finally admitted responsibility in 2005.[8]

The planned, but never executed, 1962 Operation Northwoods plot by the U.S. Department of Defense for a war with Cuba involved scenarios such as hijacking a passenger plane, sinking a U.S. ship, burning crops and blaming such actions on Cuba. It was authored by the Joint Chiefs of Staff, nixed by John F. Kennedy, came to light through the Freedom of Information Act and was publicized by James Bamford.

Former GRU officer Aleksey Galkin,[9] former FSB officer Alexander Litvinenko[10] and other whistleblowers from the Russian government and security services have asserted that the 1999 Russian apartment bombings that precipitated the Second Chechen War were false flag operations perpetrated by the FSB, the successor organization to the KGB. Galkin has since recanted his accusations, which were made while he was a prisoner of Chechen rebels. However, there are other theories that the FSB engineered this incident.

For a more in depth view on this subject, read this blog

It can only end in the destruction of the US economy , which is happening in front of our eyes , the dollar is collasping as well.The result …? the multinational companies will be incredibly rich and own most resourses ,paid for with cents on the dollar.

The U.S. dollar reached its lowest point against the euro this year due to a myriad of forces including rising global stocks and commodities prices, low interest rates, and investors diversifying out of Treasury debt and into other assets including U.S. stocks with the Dow Jones industrial average approaching 9500 in late afternoon trading.

Stocks in Asia and Europe saw big gains, and gold topped $1,000 an ounce. (See “Stocks, Commodities Rally After Long Weekend.“) Oil also gained 4.9%, or $3.31, to $71.33, on the New York Mercantile Exchange, due in part to Goldman Sachs affirming its year-long outlook. By midday trading one euro traded for $1.45, meanwhile the Dollar Index, which tracks the greenback against a basket of currencies, fell to its lowest level since September of 2008.

Major Oil Companies Post Record Profits
Oil giants Royal Dutch Shell and BP announced record profits for the first quarter of this year, driven by the surging price of crude oil.

Royal Dutch Shell says its first quarter net income jumped 25 percent to more than nine billion dollars.  BP says its profits soared 63 percent to about $7.6 billion.

Both companies said oil and gas production remained unchanged during the quarter.

Big oil companies post record profits for 2006
The three giant US-based energy conglomerates—ExxonMobil, Chevron and ConocoPhilips—posted record profits for 2006, according to reports issued by the companies at the end of the week.

Profiteering off of the doubling of crude oil prices in the space of just two years—topping $78 a barrel in the summer of 2006—the big three recorded combined windfall profits of over $72 billion.

Despite Recession and Spending Cuts, Sales of US Weapons Soar

Study Shows US Claims Vast Majority of Global Arms Market

According to a new Congressional study the United States claimed the vast majority, 68.4 percent, of all worldwide arms sales last year. With an estimated $37.8 billion in weapons sales in 2008, the US had a tenfold edge over its closest competitor, Italy.

Though the report noted that the overall global arms market had dropped significantly over the past year, which was likely attributed to the global recession, the US saw a significant increase in not only its percentage of the market but in overall sales, as competitors like Russia saw their sales cut dramatically.

The US export trade market has soared in the past decade in the face of international instability. In 2001 the United States exported only $4.5 billion, which at the time was enough to earn it only a close second place behind Russia ($4.9 billion).

Next year looks to be another banner year for US weapons merchants, as the administration has already cleared a $2.1 billion sale to India, roughly double the amount sold there in 2008.

I am sure Haliburton(Cheney) and the Carlyle Group(Bush, Bin Laden) are doing very well too…..but of course its just a coincidence.

48 Responses to Are US wars in Iraq and Afghanistan well-intended mistakes? What we now know from the evidence

  1. kope187 says:

    You know I have heard all of these arguments over and over for the past 7 years it seems. Not saying that any of it is not true and not saying I support the war, but the people that talk about all of this crap usually cannot back it up with references. Where did half this info come from? I have seen some pretty bizarre films like Zeitgeist as well haha.

    Ok to the point. The war has been going on for years and there are 2 things that I never hear the people who just rant about it say. They can never tell me what they would have done if they were in Bush’s shoes on 9/11. No one has been able to answer this question for me, but they sure as hell love to hear themselves bitch and protest. The next thing is that they can not tell me what they would do now in Obama’s shoes. Again they love to protest and get high and do the hippy thing but they have no solutions. The war has been going on for years and this blog was written less than a day ago and all it does is say the exact same thing that people have said for years. Solutions please. We don’t need back seat drivers and people that just want to bitch. We need cold hard facts and solutions to the problem.

    Look you made a very nice blog and regurgitated a bunch of crap that has been said over and over and thats what all the cool kids are doing these days, but please put your writing skills to better use. Find a solution to our current problem. Back it up with the facts and not conspiracy theory and then write a blog which deserves some credit for putting out something worth reading.

    • cuthulan says:

      Hi Kope187 ,thank you for the comment. Yes these arguements are old BUT they also have not been answered and we cannot stop asking these questions until we get an answer.There is a wealth of evidence to refer too, to back up these issues.You obviously either have ignored this or not bothered reading the arguements . What do you suggest ..we just stop asking because we are not getting the answers? Not a good idea.
      OK to the point. What would I have done in Bushs’ shoes? (btw I notice that you do not supply any solutions in your detailed comment). Well we do not know what Bush actually did! Appart from read a book for 20mins in a public building while his security services let him sit there.How did they know he was not a target?! Bush quite possibliy made 911 possible ,so I would NOT have done that for a start ,thus avoiding 911 altogether!!The governments story is fiction. Even the 911 commision says this now. Solution? re-open an independant 911 commision to find out what really happened would be a start. Start treason trials if needed. Government false flags are a reality ,this is not an outlandish conspiracy theory.
      But if you do believe the government was outsmarted by 19 Arabs. I would NOT have invaded Afghanistan or Iraq,I protested against both wars .Neither had anything to do with 911 even in the governments version! I would of put a MI5 or in the US a CIA hit squad out to have the terrorists organisers heads on a stick outside my office.Maybe even feed thier bodies to pigs…do you still get into the perfumed gardens of paradise as pig shit? This might of made a terrorist think twice. It is a barbaric response BUT understandable under the circumctances and a lot less repungnant than the US’s response of 2 wars against innocent countries! This response has increased terrorism since 2001 not reduced it!
      In Obama’s shoes , EASY!! I would do what I was voted to do.Bring the troops home. NOW! Iraq and Afghanistan are not going to get worse if we leave. We can thank all those that gave so much to create more terrorism , the Islamic Republic if Iraq and bankcrupt America. Osama could not have done better. Are these FACTS cold and hard enough for you?
      You make a very nice commenter ,trolling the blogosphere. Please put your writing skills to better use. Do not be an apologist for mass murder and terror and treason and pour scorn on those that demand truth and justice. For example ,I know people from Lockerbie. We still want the REAL bombers head on a stick. If we thought it was that poor Lybian he would of been “dealt with” in a Scottish jail long ago.
      Bring the troops home today.
      Start an independant 911 investigation
      Hang Traitors!

  2. kope187 says:

    First of all, all of the conspiracy theories out there have been disproven. There is a wealth of information out there. Second I did not provide you with my solutions because i am not the one blogging about conspiracy theories and protesting wars based on them but of course I have my opinions. third if you really think that Obama was going to just simply bring home the troops you are an idiot. We will never leave those countries. We didn’t leave Germany. We didn’t leave Korea. We never left Italy. We never left japan. We never left Kuwait. The list goes on. We will never leave the middle east.

    Lets assume that the conspiracy theories out there are correct. how many thousands of people would it take to keep quiet to cover this up. What is Bush and those thousands gaining from this all? Oil? You are going to have to do better than that. Obama has yet to pull out. What is he gaining? I mean conspiracy theories are fun but when you start actually believing them instead of reading the wealth of info out there that disproves them, then you are border line whacko.

  3. cuthulan says:

    “First of all, all of the conspiracy theories out there have been disproven.”

    !?!?!???! This is not true! If it was I would not have posted this.

    “Second I did not provide you with my solutions because i am not the one blogging about conspiracy theories and protesting wars based on them but of course I have my opinions.”

    BUT you comment on my blog about conspiract theories… it seems you are just a critic ,and you are not into constructive critisism either.

    “third if you really think that Obama was going to just simply bring home the troops you are an idiot.”

    !?!? WHAT and WHY… what good are they doing being there NOW?!?!What is stopping him from starting a pull out now?

    “We will never leave those countries. We didn’t leave Germany. We didn’t leave Korea. We never left Italy. We never left japan. We never left Kuwait. The list goes on. We will never leave the middle east.”

    YES and its that kind of foriegn policy that makes the world hate you! Not your freedom hahhhahah ….you are the most incarcerated society on Earth .Can you not see this?

    Its just coincidence that Oil and Weapons companies are breaking all profit records while the rest of the world economy goes down the plug? No conflict of interest here.
    Lets see about US conspiracy theories… I mean the US government would never deal in drugs to fund South American terrorists and sell weapons to the Revolutionary Islamic Republic of Iran while they still hold US citizens as hostages would they ?!?!?!
    “There exists a shadowy Government with its own Air Force, its own Navy, its own fundraising mechanism, and the ability to pursue its own ideas of national interest, free from all checks and balances, and free from the law itself.”– Senator Daniel K. Inouye – Iran Contra Hearings
    I mean believing everything your government tells you without question is incredibly dumb!!!! Or are you saying governments never lie? HAHAAAHHAHAA talk about whacko conspiracy theories!!
    You just go back to sleep … nothing to see here.
    But have a nice day and thank you for your time and comments.

  4. kope187 says:

    I never once said that I believe everything my government tells me. As far as Obama that is exactly my point. Why would he keep us there? That’s the point. We are never leaving. of course there is a shadow agency. Duh. You act as though the United States is the only country with these kinds of things or issues. As far as conspiracy theories you really should research more. They have been disproven. It has also been proven that these videos are being manipulated by computers. taking out and adding images. Come on man its just for fun. its conspiracy! You act as though I do not realize that oil industry and weapons manufactures are getting rich. its war time of course they are. You act as though the United states is the only country over there. I have first hand experience there and i can tell you that I counted at least 20 other countries with militaries and businesses over there. More than that actually. get off the whole hate the USA bandwagon. We are not the only ones involved here. This is a world issue and the world is profiting on this. I am not saying that I agree with it at all so don’t try and put those words in my mouth as you have in past comments put words in my mouth.

  5. cuthulan says:

    OK, let me say , I come from a family with a long line of miltary history. We where “the thin red line” my grandfather and his mates, personally re-took Aden . I myself have been in 2 war zones and have even had to fight for my life hand -to-hand!!!!
    I have respect for the armed services and I think its intolerable that they are being slaughtered for LIES! To use our armed forces for a foriegn power or personal gain and at the same time make our citizens less safe is TREASON!! I want to know that this is NOT the case , I am not convinced at all.
    Obama is working for the same people Bush was working for. Democrat ,Republican its all the same. Badge of the US president should be a set of pom poms and a short pleated skirt…. give me a U… give me an S… etc. You only get to vote for the cheerleader. The Coach, the manager , the team ,the stratigey are all in place and remain in place.
    You seem to be putting words into my mouth, I am not anti-American anymore than I am anti-British.I am a Brit and not a “self hating” one either. I just think both our governements are filled with criminals that are more likely to listen to lobby groups than the electorate.
    You seem to shift position , you now admit there IS a shadow government but still insist the government is telling the truth?!?!? Show me the evidence or “Where’s the BEEF!” I would like nothing better to know that it was Arab terrorists ,but the evidence seems to point elsewhere. PLEASE give me some links that debunk this.
    Your take on the Fake videos seems a bit “conspiracy theory” yourself . BUT who made these Fake videos and why . Most importantly if it takes the averge citizen seconds to see this is NOT Osama then what where the FBI doing releasing it to the public as Osama bin Laden? It can only be to effect public opinion or gross incompitence if they cannot even recognise thier most wanted man!
    As for conspiracy being fun!?!??!?! Conspiracy is REAL! A lot of people are doing very REAL, very LONG prison sentences for…. CONSPIRACY!!!
    Weapons and Arms industries are making out like bandits BUT before 911 2001 military and defence sending had been slashed globally! Open discusion about disbanding the CIA and MI5 ..then 911 changed all that, people have made Billions if not TRILLIONS on this. WE need to be 110% sure that we are not being led a merry chase. There is an OBVIOUS conflict of interest here and our politions take huge sums of money from these lobby groups.
    I am also a qualified mechanical engineer ,I specialise in steel structures. What happened on 911 defies the laws of physics . WTC 7 is a jaw dropper of a smoking gun for those in the know.
    Please give me some links to “undebunked” debunkers.

  6. kope187 says:

    I don’t watch videos. The USA and Britian are evil. We bomb innocents. We kill our own people. We drive planes into building with civilians. Our airforce is full of suicide pilots. We are full of people that use suicide vest to bomb peaceful places. Damn we suck. You are a hand to hand killer eh. hoo ah………..

    • cuthulan says:

      Blub blub blub … grow up.You don’t watch videos ..don’t seem to read books either. Yes you do bomb innocents ,that’s what happens when you try to win a land war by air strikes,its the cowards way!Yes you do kill your own and Brits too! Gulf War I the UK lost more troops to US “friendly fire” than died in the war. That’s what happens when you give guns to trigger happy yanks. You do not drive planes into buildings ,you have remote guidance systems ,fly by wire and drones ,so you do not need the guts shown by Kamakazis, but you certainly have thier brainwashing. You are not full of people that use suicide vests to bomb peaceful places you use cruise missiles , white phospherous , smart bombs etc to bomb peaceful places,yet again the cowards way.Damn yes ,you do suck. If you are an example of the average G.I.Joe in Iraq and Afghanistan its no wonder the locals hate you and you’re getting your bitchy ass kicked ,even with all your technology you are losing to goatherders and cavedwellers!. Yes I’ve been in hand to hand fighting , as i yank I suspect you have not , as you guys just kill everything in the area before you move in and if things get hot just call in an air stike and indiscriminately kill more. btw I’m not the one with the avatar of myself with a BIG SHINY GUN…oooooooohhhh very yank. Are you sure its pointing the right way?……. You just keep saying “Sir ,yes sir , how high should I jump sir!” and run back off to Iraq or Afghanistan and kill more people defending THIER HOMES AND COUNTRY! If these people where doing this in America they would be called PATRIOTS! Bush and Cheney are COWARDS they never answered the call when it was thier turn. They are only in it for the money and you are very expendable to them! They will have the best medical care and pensions , you will be chucked on the human scrap heap! But you still do not question!??!? It seems you are nothing more than a trained killer ,and I cheap one at that! ..or do you work for Blackwater or another mercenary unit?
      The difference between the British army and the US army?
      The British army equipes men ,while the US army mans equipement.
      US Training manual
      Find yourself the biggest shiniest Phallic Symbol and rub yourself against it until it goes off!
      For an example please check diagram 1 -“kope187 avatar.”

  7. kope187 says:

    Wow, well this discussion went completely unprofessional. For a British soldier you sure have a lot of misconceptions about the locals in Iraq and Afganastan. You definitely have a lot of misconceptions about the US military and your own military for that matter. I have cross trained with the British military as well as many other countries and they definitely do not talk like you. They never once stereotyped us saying that we did things the yank way or whatever. They had their orders and we had ours and 99 percent of the time our orders were the same as all of the other militaries over there. We’re all on the same side and doing a pretty good job given all of the political nonsense that we are having to deal with. The locals love us and are scared to death that we are going to leave. I truly feel for them when we do. As soldiers we have done some real good and are appreciated by the locals. Of course there are a few bad apples in the bunch but not really. its just glorified on TV. to all you British soldiers I loved cross training with you. Keep up the good work and don’t let the politics and misinformed people bring you down!

    PS. Is my weapon really shiny? damn I painted it to blend in although I am not trying to blend in there hahaha

    • cuthulan says:

      “Wow, well this discussion went completely unprofessional.”
      YES I agree , it started about here….
      “I don’t watch videos. The USA and Britian are evil. We bomb innocents. We kill our own people. We drive planes into building with civilians. Our airforce is full of suicide pilots. We are full of people that use suicide vest to bomb peaceful places. Damn we suck. You are a hand to hand killer eh. hoo ah………..”

      A very mature and professional response for a US soldier ……..

      Actually I resigned my commision in disgust. I have a great respect for the military and the guts it takes,been thruw the wringer myself. BUT I actually think it should be disbanded ! As an army ,in reality makes the country LESS safe NOT more safe.Its a tool for megalomaniac politions.Do you really think you are making America and for example my loved ones any safer by your actions?! Your loved ones are in greater danger right now ,because you will not be even in the same country and your actions abroad ARE giving people GENUINE REASON to hate you. I was in both war zones officially as a civilian trying to build things ,that you guys had blown up! Water purifiers , electricity generators etc… Balkans etc.. Another great triumph … Milsovic was found INNOCENT btw . It was the KLA(NATO) that was mass murdering and organ legging! Just went in to kill people and steal thier resourses!FUCKING DISGRACE!!
      Arrested by Yugoslav federal authorities on Saturday, 31 March 2001, on suspicion of corruption, abuse of power, and embezzlement.[1][2] The initial investigation into Milo?evic faltered for lack of hard evidence, prompting the Serbian Prime Minister Zoran Ðindic to send him to The Hague to stand trial for charges of war crimes instead.
      The trial was a controversial issue and has featured many conflicting testimonies.
      the statement by William Walker, the US former ambassador to El Salvador during its war, that he did not remember phoning several senior US officials to say that, at Racak, he had discovered a justification for a NATO war. He did not dispute that officials who said they had received his calls were telling the truth, however.
      Rade Markovic’s statement that a written statement he had made implicating Miloševic had been extracted from him by ill-treatment legally amounting to torture by named NATO officers[100] Judge May declared this to be “irrelevant”, but Miloševic stated that it was forbidden under the 1988 rules concerning evidence gained by torture.
      the statement by Lord Owen (author of the Vance Owen Plan) that Miloševic was not a racist, a radical nationalist or an “ethnic purist”. Owen said he didn’t think “that he (Miloševic) was one of those who wanted all Muslims out of Republika Srpska any more than he wanted all Muslims out of Serbia.”[
      It was considered likely that, if allowed to present his case, Miloševic would attempt to establish that NATO’s attack on Yugoslavia was aggressive, thus being a war crime under international law and that, while supporting the KLA, were aware that they had practiced and intended to continue practicing genocide.If a prima facie case for either claim were established, the ICTY would be legally obliged under its terms of reference to prepare an indictment against the leaders of most of the NATO countries.
      Miloševic was found dead in his cell on March 11, 2006, in the UN war crimes tribunal’s detention center, located in the Scheveningen section of The Hague.
      Several medical experts, such as Leo Bokeria (the director of the Russian heart surgery centre, where Miloševic had requested to be treated) and The Times’ medical columnist Thomas Stuttaford, asserted that Miloševic’s heart attack could and should have been prevented easily by means of standard medical procedures.
      In February 2007, the International Court of Justice (ICJ) cleared Serbia of genocide, but ICJ’s president stated that Miloševic was aware of the risk of massacres occurring and did not act to prevent them.
      In an interview with the Milan magazine, former head of the UNMIK Office on Missing Persons and Forensics ( OMPF) Jose Pablo Baraybar presented data on the kidnapping of Serbs
      Ethnic Albanians have committed ghastly crimes in Kosovo and Metohija, and among those that are to be held responsible for the massive murders of Serbs are former commander of the (so-called) Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA) and Kosovo premier, Ramus Haradinaj and Agim Cheku respetively, the Italian weekly magazine Panorama has set out in an analytical article, publishing for the first time the photos of Serb victims.
      The Hague Tribunal had acquitted Haradinaj of all war crimes charges, since all the witnesses in the proceedings had been killed in very strange accidents, as the Tribunal itself had admitted. Baraybar made a repot on the investigation, in which he claims that traces of blood, as well as injections, muscle relaxants, surgery material and similar equipment were found in the kitchen and the broom closet of the Yellow House, all of which proved that Albanian surgents had taken organs out of the Serbs’ bodies.The issue of trade of kidnapped Serbs’ organs was actualized only recently, when former ICTY chief prosecutor Carla del Ponte spoke about the issue in her book entitled The Hunt: Me and War Criminals,
      The Hague Tribunal told us that it was too late for a new investigation because the Tribunal would be closed in 2010, the Peruvian diplomat said, pointing out that the Kosovo judiciary was not interested in that case.
      THERE’S NO JUSTICE ,THERE’S JUST US!! Balkans was just another economic war , is it good to murder for profit?
      The locals love us ?!?!?!?! Sorry mate ,do not believe that for a minute.If that was true why are you fighting terrorist insurgents ? Its THIER COUNTRY btw so call them PATRIOTS!!!.In my experience they are not always pleased to see the UN or independant engineers etc.. nevermind the UN or US soldiers. Do not confuse running out to beg for sweets (candy) as being “pleased to see you”. Nobody admits to being displeased to see you when you have the gun in your hand. Sorry mate but I think you are deluded… come home now .Your actions are NOT helping ,they make us ALL less safe. This War was a LIE from the start , just like the BALKANS!!!
      Bush and Cheney never went to Vietnam ,because they are cowards .But they are happy to send you guys for lies and watch you die while THEY get the best medical and pensions!
      and as for……..
      “The locals love us and are scared to death that we are going to leave. I truly feel for them when we do. As soldiers we have done some real good and are appreciated by the locals. Of course there are a few bad apples in the bunch but not really. its just glorified on TV.”
      Hahahahahhahahahahha, PLEASE STOP!!!! MY sides are splitting ….you don’t really believe this do you!?!? I forget you are American.The country was in a much better state before you arrived! There where NO TERRORISTS in Iraq before you arrived!!! The where LESS TORTURE CELLS RUNNING before you arrived!!! LESS people vanished in the night or feared having thier door kicked in ,in the night before you arrived!!!! …….Yes of course they are scared you are leaving…
      I see you at least do not contend the facts in my previous post. Health care issues , an unwinable war from the air , US killed more Brits than the Iraqi’s in the last Gulf War.I am sure you enjoyed the cross training, the British have a long history of being an Occupying force , you could learn alot from them .Unfortunately it seems you use the Israeli manual instead!!
      Increased terrorism and drugs etc etc.. wonderful job guys ,keep up the good work!
      Who’s at home keeping the little woman company on those lonely nights? , it was the yanks in WWII for us Brits!!!

  8. cuthulan says:

    kope187 I have no personal emnity towards you ,I think the Iraq and Afghan wars are war crimes,but let me try and respond to your last comments …
    Its my Last Post 😉

    “You definitely have a lot of misconceptions about the US military and your own military for that matter.”

    I feel exactly the same about your opinion!! I think you are deluded.

    “I have cross trained with the British military as well as many other countries and they definitely do not talk like you.”

    Now this makes me wonder !?!?!? It was normal in my day to refer to Americans as Yanks , like the English refered to us Scots as Jocks. Its more friendly banter than an insult. This makes me think you have not cross trained that well ,if at all!!! Did you even bother listening?

    “We’re all on the same side and doing a pretty good job given all of the political nonsense that we are having to deal with. ”

    NO YOU ARE NOT!!! 8 years on and we see no clean water , no reliable electricity supply , increased domestic and urban violence , increased terrorism , increased house to house searches , increased torture cells (when do you plan to close Abu Graib?) The country is a LOT WORSE TODAY!!! There where NO WMD’s and NO 911 CONNECTION. It was a war of aggression ,that means it is a WAR CRIME!!!!
    It has been a complete FARCE!!! Hope you think it was worth the sacrifice to create the Islamic Republic of Iraq (its was a fully functioning secular country before you arrived) be the biggest recruiters for global terrorism(this makes the public LESS SAFE ,do you want me to thank you for this!?!?!?!?!?!?) and singlehanded revived the global heroin trade .YOU THINK THAT’S A GOOD JOB?!?!?! well I suppose the Nazi concentration camp guards concidered that they where “doing a good job given all the political nonsense that they had to deal with”. Just following orders……..muppets!!!!

    “The locals love us and are scared to death that we are going to leave. I truly feel for them when we do. As soldiers we have done some real good and are appreciated by the locals.”

    This is just complete BULLSHIT!!!!

    “Of course there are a few bad apples in the bunch but not really”.

    The army is made up of the good, the bad, and the ugly ,just like Joe Public on civvy street.

    ” its just glorified on TV.”

    TOTALLY DISAGREE …Its The Army that is glorified on TV and the war propaganda is endless.

    “to all you British soldiers I loved cross training with you. Keep up the good work and don’t let the politics and misinformed people bring you down!”

    To my friends currently serving and all others ,come home safely , do your job as best you can and try not to be dragged into commiting war crimes. Bad situations happen to all , and sometimes bad things are done by good people in bad situations. Iraq and Afghanistan are bad situations.YOU have been placed there by LIARS and COWARDS for thier political and financial benefit! These people are TRAITORS!!
    Don’t let the war propaganda brainwash you , resign your commision and find an HONEST JOB!!!! REALLY YOU WILL FEEL A LOT BETTER!!!!!

  9. kope187 says:

    Wow. Ok I am am not about to read all of your mumbo jumbo. Obviously you lay awake at night and think of random shit to babble about on your blog. All I tried to say was that I feel as though you have a few misconceptions. You assume that I am still in the military. You assume that I agree with the war. Some of the random statistics and facts that you have stated I believe are wrong due to the fact that i have spent so much time over seas. I just didn’t see or hear about the things that many civilians claim to be true. You mentioned something about candy and kids and I believe you tried to imply that the people love us because of the candy. Again I never said that. This is typical civilian banter. They throw shit like that back at us for some reason. The bottom line is that as soldiers from the US or any country for that matter, we are not evil people. We work with the locals and they see us the soldiers as good people. Now as far as the big picture aka government, that is a whole other thing. Politics, government, and war have all been about greed from the beginning of time. I cannot do anything about this, but as a Soldier, regardless of various government intentions, I personally could do a lot to help out less fortunate people. Whether that was handing out food from my MRE that I personally needed to survive in the desert, or providing protection or whatever. As a human being I had the opportunity to help others regardless of what your government or mine or anyone elses for that matter is wanting. Some people accuse us soldiers of committing war crimes. Civilians truly believe that we walk down the streets and just shoot people. They truly believe that we kick in doors all day everyday and just harass locals. Arguing with them is pointless. Civilians that have not been in this war simply believe what they want to believe or hear some random story and that story turns into another. I need not bother with arguing. I just want you to understand that not all of the things that you are saying is true. They are misunderstandings, which is understandable. As far as government intentions…….Protest all you want. Its like kicking a dead horse. Protesters do not get heard. Spatting BS and theories over the internet does not really get heard either. Its not respected so no one listens.

  10. cuthulan says:

    “Ok I am am not about to read all of your mumbo jumbo. ”
    PLEASE stop commenting on it then, with your endless stream of verbal waffle!

    YOU have misunderstood me BIG TIME. If you had bothered reading my mumbo jumbo you would see I an not anti-soldier. They are just a mix of the good the bad and the ugly as any civilain group.

    BUT if you are trying to tell me your presence in IRAQ or AFGHANISTAN has IMPROVED the lifestyles for these people OR made the world a safer place

    ” Politics, government, and war have all been about greed from the beginning of time. I cannot do anything about this, but as a Soldier, regardless of various government intentions, I personally could do a lot to help out less fortunate people.”

    YES I felt like that once , BUT then I handed in my commision.I was NOT going to be some cowardly ,greedy politions hired gun. If I really want to help these people , I’d be constructive not destructive. Armies are NOT NATION BUILDERS!!!
    Is that why you comment on this so much ,but give NO EVIDENCE of your counter claims? In your head you know that this is all wrong, and “I was only following orders” IS NO EXCUSE TODAY!!
    I repeat the end of my LAST POST!!
    To my friends currently serving and all others ,come home safely , do your job as best you can and try not to be dragged into commiting war crimes. Bad situations happen to all , and sometimes bad things are done by good people in bad situations. Iraq and Afghanistan are bad situations.YOU have been placed there by LIARS and COWARDS for thier political and financial benefit! These people are TRAITORS!!
    Don’t let the war propaganda brainwash you , resign your commision and find an HONEST JOB!!!! REALLY YOU WILL FEEL A LOT BETTER!!!!!

    There are more terrorist today and a hell of a lot more Heroin and its all coming from Iraq and Afghanistan and none of it was there before YOU arrived.
    Indeed, opium production in Afghanistan — much of it in the regions where Canadian and British troops are supposed to be in charge — shot up dramatically last year.
    The 49 per cent increase in the opium harvest, right under the noses of NATO forces, represented a doubling of the crop from 2000, when the fundamentalist Taliban were still in control, and solidified Afghanistan’s position as the chief supplier of illegal opium to the world.
    But the latest Afghan numbers are so large that the country now accounts for 92 per cent of the illicit global opium crop. backgroun…fghanistan.html
    The Afghanistan province being patrolled by British troops will produce at least one third of the world’s heroin this year, according to drug experts who are forecasting a harvest that is both a record for the country and embarrassing for the western funded war on narcotics.
    British officials are bracing themselves for the result of an annual UN poppy survey due later this summer. Early indications show an increase on Helmand’s 1999 record of 45,000 hectares (112,500 acres) and a near-doubling of last year’s crop.
    “It’s going to be massive,” said one British drugs official. “My guess is it’s going to be the biggest ever.” UN, American and Afghan officials agreed.
    “It could be over 50,000 hectares, or over 50% of the total [Aghan] crop,” said General Muhammad Daud, the deputy interior minister for counter-narcotics. …stan.drugstrade

    “Afghan drug trafficking brings US $50 billion a year”
    The US is not going to stop the production of drugs in Afghanistan as it covers the costs of their military presence there, says Gen. Mahmut Gareev, a former commander during the USSR’s operations in Afghanistan.

    They where bombing Turkey at the time ,and the US/UK protected them from Saddam’s attack by No-Fly-Zones. If you REALLY wanted to get rid of Iraqi terrorists one cruise missile would of done it!
    Spewing pro-war Jughead propaganda over the internet , who the f*ck listens to that crap????

  11. cuthulan says:

    Please read this article , it pretty much sums up why I handed in my commision in total disgust. Disgust of our leaders.Nothing has changed. I also agree with his take on the American troops…

    The descent of Britain’s Afghan campaign into a Vietnam-style madness


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